Difference between revisions of "TOBJ"

From GTAMods Wiki
Jump to navigation Jump to search
m
m
Line 1: Line 1:
 
{{IdeSection
 
{{IdeSection
−
| game        = {{Icon|t}} {{Icon|4}}
+
|game        = {{Icon|t}} {{Icon|LCS}} {{Icon|4}}
−
| description = Used to define timed map objects
+
|description = Defines timed map objects
 
}}
 
}}
−
'''TOBJ''' is a section in the [[item definition]] file in [[GTA III]], [[Vice City]], [[San Andreas]], and [[GTA IV]]. It is used to define standard map objects similar to the [[OBJS]] section with an additional in-game time range defining when the object gets rendered. [[GTA IV]] also support time controlled objects linked to animations through the [[TANM]] section. Most, if not all, time objects use the [[#Object flags|object flag]] 2 to prevent them from fading into and out of view at those times.
+
'''TOBJ''' is a section in the [[item definition]] file in [[GTA III]], [[Vice City]], [[San Andreas]], [[Liberty City Stories]], and [[GTA IV]]. It is used to define standard map objects similar to the [[OBJS]] section with an additional in-game time range defining when the object gets rendered. [[GTA IV]] also support time controlled objects linked to animations through the [[TANM]] section. Most, if not all, time objects use the [[#Object flags|object flag]] 2 to prevent them from fading into and out of view at those times.
  
 
== Format ==
 
== Format ==
−
=== GTA III, Vice City, and San Andreas ===
+
=== GTA III – Liberty City Stories ===
 
{{Pre|
 
{{Pre|
 
tobj
 
tobj
−
# [[#Type 1|type 1]] (III/VC/SA)
+
# [[#Type 1|type 1]] (III/VC/SA/LCS)
 
Id, ModelName, TxdName, MeshCount, DrawDistance, Flags, TimeOn, TimeOff
 
Id, ModelName, TxdName, MeshCount, DrawDistance, Flags, TimeOn, TimeOff
−
# [[#Type 2|type 2]] (III/VC/SA)
+
# [[#Type 2|type 2]] (III/VC/SA/LCS)
 
Id, ModelName, TxdName, MeshCount, DrawDistance1, DrawDistance2, Flags, TimeOn, TimeOff
 
Id, ModelName, TxdName, MeshCount, DrawDistance1, DrawDistance2, Flags, TimeOn, TimeOff
−
# [[#Type 3|type 3]] (III/VC/SA)
+
# [[#Type 3|type 3]] (III/VC/SA/LCS)
 
Id, ModelName, TxdName, MeshCount, DrawDistance1, DrawDistance2, DrawDistance3, Flags, TimeOn, TimeOff
 
Id, ModelName, TxdName, MeshCount, DrawDistance1, DrawDistance2, DrawDistance3, Flags, TimeOn, TimeOff
 
# [[#Type 4|type 4]] (SA)
 
# [[#Type 4|type 4]] (SA)
Line 19: Line 19:
 
end
 
end
 
}}
 
}}
−
 
−
====Type 0====
 
−
This type should never be used but it is still considered valid. It is documented here for sake of completion.
 
−
{|class="wikitable center-col-1 center-col-2" style="width: 100%;"
 
−
! style="width: 4em;"| {{Icon|t}}
 
−
! style="width: 12em;"| Identifier
 
−
! style="width: 6em;" | Type
 
−
! Description
 
−
|-
 
−
| A || Id || integer || Unique object ID.
 
−
|-
 
−
| B || ModelName || string || Name of the <code>.dff</code> [[model file]] without extension.
 
−
|-
 
−
| C || TxdName || string || Name of the <code>.txd</code> [[texture dictionary]] without extension.
 
−
|-
 
−
| D || ''unknown'' || integer || ''unknown''
 
−
|}
 
  
 
====Type 1====
 
====Type 1====
 
This is used for non-breakable objects.
 
This is used for non-breakable objects.
 
{|class="wikitable center-col-1 center-col-2" style="width: 100%;"
 
{|class="wikitable center-col-1 center-col-2" style="width: 100%;"
−
! style="width: 4em;"| {{Icon|t}}
+
!style="width: 3em;" |{{Icon|3}} {{Icon|VC}}<br>{{Icon|SA}} {{Icon|LCS}}
−
! style="width: 12em;"| Identifier
+
!style="width: 12em;" |Identifier
−
! style="width: 6em;" | Type
+
!style="width: 6em;" |Type
−
! Description
+
!Description
 
|-
 
|-
−
| A || Id || integer || Unique object ID.
+
|A ||Id ||integer ||Unique object identifier.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| B || ModelName || string || Name of the <code>.dff</code> [[model file]] without extension.
+
|B ||ModelName ||string ||Name of the [[model file]] without extension.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| C || TxdName || string || Name of the <code>.txd</code> [[texture dictionary]] without extension.
+
|C ||TxdName ||string ||Name of the [[texture dictionary]] without extension.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| D || MeshCount || integer || Number of meshes. 1 for this type.
+
|D ||MeshCount ||integer ||Number of meshes. 1 for this type.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| E || DrawDistance || float || [[Draw distance]] in [[unit]]s.
+
|E ||DrawDistance ||float ||[[Draw distance]] in [[unit]]s.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| F || Flags || integer || Object flags (see [[#Object flags|below]]).
+
|F ||Flags ||integer ||Object flags ([[#Object flags|see below]]).
 
|-
 
|-
−
| G || TimeOn || integer || Hour to appear
+
|G ||TimeOn ||integer ||Hour to appear
 
|-
 
|-
−
| H || TimeOff || integer || Hour to disappear
+
|H ||TimeOff ||integer ||Hour to disappear
 
|}
 
|}
  
Line 65: Line 48:
 
This is used for breakable objects.
 
This is used for breakable objects.
 
{|class="wikitable center-col-1 center-col-2" style="width: 100%;"
 
{|class="wikitable center-col-1 center-col-2" style="width: 100%;"
−
! style="width: 4em;"| {{Icon|t}}
+
!style="width: 3em;" |{{Icon|3}} {{Icon|VC}}<br>{{Icon|SA}} {{Icon|LCS}}
−
! style="width: 12em;"| Identifier
+
!style="width: 12em;" |Identifier
−
! style="width: 6em;" | Type
+
!style="width: 6em;" |Type
−
! Description
+
!Description
 
|-
 
|-
−
| A || Id || integer || Unique object ID.
+
|A ||Id ||integer ||Unique object identifier.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| B || ModelName || string || Name of the <code>.dff</code> [[model file]] without extension.
+
|B ||ModelName ||string ||Name of the [[model file]] without extension.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| C || TxdName || string || Name of the <code>.txd</code> [[texture dictionary]] without extension.
+
|C ||TxdName ||string ||Name of the [[texture dictionary]] without extension.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| D || MeshCount || integer || Number of meshes. 2 for this type.
+
|D ||MeshCount ||integer ||Number of meshes. 2 for this type.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| E,F || DrawDistance1, DrawDistance2 || float[2] || [[Draw distance]] in [[unit]]s (one for each mesh, only the first is actually used).
+
|E,F ||DrawDistance1, DrawDistance2 ||float[2] ||[[Draw distance]] in [[unit]]s (one for each mesh, only the first is actually used).
 
|-
 
|-
−
| G || Flags || integer || Object flags (see [[#Object flags|below]]).
+
|G ||Flags ||integer ||Object flags ([[#Object flags|see below]]).
 
|-
 
|-
−
| H || TimeOn || integer || Hour to appear
+
|H ||TimeOn ||integer ||Hour to appear
 
|-
 
|-
−
| I || TimeOff || integer || Hour to disappear
+
|I ||TimeOff ||integer ||Hour to disappear
 
|}
 
|}
  
Line 90: Line 73:
 
This is used for complex breakable objects.
 
This is used for complex breakable objects.
 
{|class="wikitable center-col-1 center-col-2" style="width: 100%;"
 
{|class="wikitable center-col-1 center-col-2" style="width: 100%;"
−
! style="width: 4em;"| {{Icon|t}}
+
!style="width: 3em;" |{{Icon|3}} {{Icon|VC}}<br>{{Icon|SA}} {{Icon|LCS}}
−
! style="width: 12em;"| Identifier
+
!style="width: 12em;" |Identifier
−
! style="width: 6em;" | Type
+
!style="width: 6em;" |Type
−
! Description
+
!Description
 
|-
 
|-
−
| A || Id || integer || Unique object ID.
+
|A ||Id ||integer ||Unique object identifier.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| B || ModelName || string || Name of the <code>.dff</code> [[model file]] without extension.
+
|B ||ModelName ||string ||Name of the [[model file]] without extension.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| C || TxdName || string || Name of the <code>.txd</code> [[texture dictionary]] without extension.
+
|C ||TxdName ||string ||Name of the [[texture dictionary]] without extension.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| D || MeshCount || integer || Number of meshes. 3 for this type.
+
|D ||MeshCount ||integer ||Number of meshes. 3 for this type.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| E,F,G || DrawDistance1, DrawDistance2, DrawDistance3 || float[3] || [[Draw distance]] in [[unit]]s (one for each mesh, only the first is actually used).
+
|E,F,G ||DrawDistance1, DrawDistance2, DrawDistance3 ||float[3] ||[[Draw distance]] in [[unit]]s (one for each mesh, only the first is actually used).
 
|-
 
|-
−
| H || Flags || integer || Object flags (see [[#Object flags|below]]).
+
|H ||Flags ||integer ||Object flags ([[#Object flags|see below]]).
 
|-
 
|-
−
| I || TimeOn || integer || Hour to appear
+
|I ||TimeOn ||integer ||Hour to appear
 
|-
 
|-
−
| J || TimeOff || integer || Hour to disappear
+
|J ||TimeOff ||integer ||Hour to disappear
 
|}
 
|}
  
Line 115: Line 98:
 
This is used for non-breakable objects and behaves equivalently to [[#Type 1|Type 1]].
 
This is used for non-breakable objects and behaves equivalently to [[#Type 1|Type 1]].
 
{|class="wikitable center-col-1 center-col-2" style="width: 100%;"
 
{|class="wikitable center-col-1 center-col-2" style="width: 100%;"
−
! style="width: 3em;"| {{Icon|SA}}
+
!style="width: 3em;" |{{Icon|SA}}
−
! style="width: 12em;"| Identifier
+
!style="width: 12em;" |Identifier
−
! style="width: 6em;" | Type
+
!style="width: 6em;" |Type
−
! Description
+
!Description
 
|-
 
|-
−
| A || Id || integer || Unique object ID.
+
|A ||Id ||integer ||Unique object identifier.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| B || ModelName || string || Name of the <code>.dff</code> [[model file]] without extension.
+
|B ||ModelName ||string ||Name of the [[model file]] without extension.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| C || TxdName || string || Name of the <code>.txd</code> [[texture dictionary]] without extension.
+
|C ||TxdName ||string ||Name of the [[texture dictionary]] without extension.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| D || DrawDistance || float || [[Draw distance]] in [[unit]]s.
+
|D ||DrawDistance ||float ||[[Draw distance]] in [[unit]]s.
 
|-
 
|-
−
| E || Flags || integer || Object flags (see [[#Object flags|below]]).
+
|E ||Flags ||integer ||Object flags ([[#Object flags|see below]]).
 
|-
 
|-
−
| F || TimeOn || integer || Hour to appear
+
|F ||TimeOn ||integer ||Hour to appear
 
|-
 
|-
−
| G || TimeOff || integer || Hour to disappear
+
|G ||TimeOff ||integer ||Hour to disappear
 
|}
 
|}
  
Line 143: Line 126:
  
 
{|class="wikitable center-col-1 center-col-2" style="width: 100%;"
 
{|class="wikitable center-col-1 center-col-2" style="width: 100%;"
−
! style="width: 3em;"| {{Icon|4}}
+
!style="width: 3em;" |{{Icon|4}}
−
! style="width: 12em;"| Identifier
+
!style="width: 12em;" |Identifier
−
! style="width: 6em;" | Type
+
!style="width: 6em;" |Type
−
! Description
+
!Description
 
|-
 
|-
 
|A ||ModelName ||string ||Name of the <code>.wdr</code> ''model file'' without extension.
 
|A ||ModelName ||string ||Name of the <code>.wdr</code> ''model file'' without extension.
Line 185: Line 168:
  
 
{{N|4|SA|VC|3}}
 
{{N|4|SA|VC|3}}
 +
[[Category:GTA LCS]]

Revision as of 11:51, 19 July 2017

TOBJ (IDE section)
Supported games:GTA III Vice City San Andreas Liberty City Stories GTA IV
Brief description:Defines timed map objects
IDE Sections:
2DFX • AMAT • ANIM • CARS • HIER • HAND • MLO • OBJS
PATH • PEDS • TANM • TOBJ • TREE • TXDP • WEAP

TOBJ is a section in the item definition file in GTA III, Vice City, San Andreas, Liberty City Stories, and GTA IV. It is used to define standard map objects similar to the OBJS section with an additional in-game time range defining when the object gets rendered. GTA IV also support time controlled objects linked to animations through the TANM section. Most, if not all, time objects use the object flag 2 to prevent them from fading into and out of view at those times.

Format

GTA III – Liberty City Stories

tobj
# type 1 (III/VC/SA/LCS)
Id, ModelName, TxdName, MeshCount, DrawDistance, Flags, TimeOn, TimeOff
# type 2 (III/VC/SA/LCS)
Id, ModelName, TxdName, MeshCount, DrawDistance1, DrawDistance2, Flags, TimeOn, TimeOff
# type 3 (III/VC/SA/LCS)
Id, ModelName, TxdName, MeshCount, DrawDistance1, DrawDistance2, DrawDistance3, Flags, TimeOn, TimeOff
# type 4 (SA)
Id, ModelName, TxdName, DrawDistance, Flags, TimeOn, TimeOff
end

Type 1

This is used for non-breakable objects.

GTA III Vice City
San Andreas Liberty City Stories 		Identifier Type Description
A Id integer Unique object identifier.
B ModelName string Name of the model file without extension.
C TxdName string Name of the texture dictionary without extension.
D MeshCount integer Number of meshes. 1 for this type.
E DrawDistance float Draw distance in units.
F Flags integer Object flags (see below).
G TimeOn integer Hour to appear
H TimeOff integer Hour to disappear

Type 2

This is used for breakable objects.

GTA III Vice City
San Andreas Liberty City Stories 		Identifier Type Description
A Id integer Unique object identifier.
B ModelName string Name of the model file without extension.
C TxdName string Name of the texture dictionary without extension.
D MeshCount integer Number of meshes. 2 for this type.
E,F DrawDistance1, DrawDistance2 float[2] Draw distance in units (one for each mesh, only the first is actually used).
G Flags integer Object flags (see below).
H TimeOn integer Hour to appear
I TimeOff integer Hour to disappear

Type 3

This is used for complex breakable objects.

GTA III Vice City
San Andreas Liberty City Stories 		Identifier Type Description
A Id integer Unique object identifier.
B ModelName string Name of the model file without extension.
C TxdName string Name of the texture dictionary without extension.
D MeshCount integer Number of meshes. 3 for this type.
E,F,G DrawDistance1, DrawDistance2, DrawDistance3 float[3] Draw distance in units (one for each mesh, only the first is actually used).
H Flags integer Object flags (see below).
I TimeOn integer Hour to appear
J TimeOff integer Hour to disappear

Type 4

This is used for non-breakable objects and behaves equivalently to Type 1.

San Andreas Identifier Type Description
A Id integer Unique object identifier.
B ModelName string Name of the model file without extension.
C TxdName string Name of the texture dictionary without extension.
D DrawDistance float Draw distance in units.
E Flags integer Object flags (see below).
F TimeOn integer Hour to appear
G TimeOff integer Hour to disappear

GTA IV

tobj
ModelName, TxdName, DrawDistance, Flags, Unknown, MinX, MinY, MinZ, MaxX, MaxY, MaxZ, SphereX, SphereY, SphereZ, Radius, LODModel, NightFlag
end
GTA IV Identifier Type Description
A ModelName string Name of the .wdr model file without extension.
B TxdName string name of the .wtd texture dictionary without extension.
C DrawDistance float Draw distance in units.
D Flags integer Object flag (see below).
E unknown float Unknown integer (0 by default).
F,G,H MinX, MinY, MinZ float[3] Lower left corner of the bounding box for the object.
I,J,K MaxX, MaxY, MaxZ float[3] Upper right corner of the bounding box for the object.
L,M,N SphereX, SphereY, SphereZ float[3] Center of the bounding sphere for the object.
O Radius float Radius of the bounding sphere into all dimensions.
P LODModel string Name of the .wdd file that contains the lod model for the defined modelname.
Q NightFlag integer If enabled (1) the object only shows at nighttime, otherwise the object gets only rendered at daytime. Day- and nighttimes are hardcoded.

Object flags

Flags are used to specify the behaviour of objects. They are signed 32-bit integer values where each bit describes a boolean value of an special aspect.

Flag Supported games Binary Description
-1 – 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 1111 Enables all flags.[a] Never used by default.
1 GTA III Vice City San Andreas GTA IV 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0001 Wet effect (objects appear darker).
2 GTA III Vice City San Andreas GTA IV 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0010 Do not fade the object when it is being loaded into or out of view.
4 GTA III Vice City San Andreas GTA IV 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0100 Allow transparencies of other objects to be visible through this object.
8 GTA III Vice City San Andreas GTA IV 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 1000 Alpha transparency 2
16 GTA III Vice City San Andreas GTA IV 0000 0000 0000 0000 0001 0000 Opposite to flag 2
32 GTA III Vice City San Andreas GTA IV 0000 0000 0000 0000 0010 0000 Indicates an object to be used inside an interior.
64 GTA III Vice City San Andreas GTA IV 0000 0000 0000 0000 0100 0000 Disables the shadow mesh to project a shadow; allow transparencies of other objects, shadows, and lights to be visible through this object.
128 Vice City San Andreas GTA IV 0000 0000 0000 0000 1000 0000 Object surface will not be culled.
256 Vice City San Andreas GTA IV 0000 0000 0000 0001 0000 0000 Disables draw distance (Only used for LOD objects with an LOD value greater than 299).
512 Vice City San Andreas GTA IV 0000 0000 0000 0010 0000 0000 Object is breakable (like glass – additional parameters defined inside the object.dat file, otherwise there is no effect).
1024 Vice City San Andreas GTA IV 0000 0000 0000 0100 0000 0000 Similar to flag 512: object first cracks on a strong collision, then it breaks (does also require object.dat registration).
2048 San Andreas GTA IV 0000 0000 0000 1000 0000 0000 Indicates an object as an garage door (for more information see GRGE – requires object.dat registration).
4096 San Andreas GTA IV 0000 0000 0001 0000 0000 0000 Indicates a multi mesh object (Object switches from mesh 2 to mesh 1 after collision – requires object.dat registration).
16384 San Andreas 0000 0000 0100 0000 0000 0000 Indicates a vegetation object (Object moves in wind).
32768 San Andreas GTA IV 0000 0000 1000 0000 0000 0000 Uses object brightness from the current weather definition (See timecyc.dat – PoleShd).
65536 San Andreas GTA IV 0000 0001 0000 0000 0000 0000 Object explodes after getting hit (requires object.dat registration).
131072 San Andreas 0000 0010 0000 0000 0000 0000 Unknown – apparently some flag for the Script.
262144 San Andreas 0000 0100 0000 0000 0000 0000 Unknown – only used 1 time in San Andreas.
1048576 San Andreas 0000 1000 0000 0000 0000 0000 Object will switch from mesh 2 to mesh 1 after getting sprayed by the player (graffity flag).
2097152 San Andreas 0001 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 Disables backface culling – as an result the texture will be drawed on both sides of the model (Always enabled for GTA III and Vice City)
4194304 San Andreas 0010 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 Unknown – apparently related into physics.
edit

Statistics

Total number of TOBJ entries in:

GTA III: 24 (max 30)
Vice City: 342 (max 385)
San Andreas: 160

See also

  • OBJS, a similar section in the item definition file independent of time
  • TANM
v · d · e
GTA IV Grand Theft Auto IV
File Formats.dat • .gxt • .ide • .img • .ipl • .nod • .sco • .rpf • .rrr • .wad • .wbd/.wbn • .wdd • .wdr • .wft • .whm • .wpl • .wtd
DocumentationAudio • Bink Video • Cryptography • Cutscenes • GXT Text • Image listing • Keycodes • Map Listing • Native functions • Paths • Radar Blips • Radio Stations • Saves • Scenarios • VTable • Weapons
ToolsASI Loader • ENBSeries • G-Texture • GIMS IV • Ingame WPL Editor • IV Needle • OpenIV • SparkIV • XLiveLess • WPL Manager • X Mod Installer
Alice • C++ Script Hook • .NET Script Hook • Scocl
TutorialsImporting Textures with OpenIV • Importing Textures with SparkIV
ModificationsGTA Connected • Gostown IV • Four Multiplayer • IV Multiplayer • CitizenMP:IV Reloaded
Useful linksCommunity portal • Discussion forums • Modding forums • Mods on GTAGarage.com
v · d · e
San Andreas Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas
File Formats.b • .col • .cfg • .cut • .dff • .dat • .fxp • .gxt • .ide • .ifp • .img • .ipl • nodes*.dat • .ped • .rep • .rrr • .scm • .set • .txd
DocumentationAudio • Cryptography • Cutscenes • Game memory • Handling.cfg • Map Listing • Mission Packs • Instructions • Paths • Replays • Saves • Scripts • Sound Effects • Statistics • Vehicles • Wanted levels
ToolsCLEO • Collision File Editor II • ENBSeries • G-Tools • IMG Tool • Limit Adjuster • Map Editor • Mod Loader • San Andreas Audio Toolkit • Sanny Builder • TXD Workshop • Magic.TXD
TutorialsSan Andreas v2.0 Modding • How to create a mission • How to create a script • How to use Map Editor • Vehicle Mod Installation
ModificationsDesign Your Own Mission • Gostown Paradise • GTA: United • Myriad Islands
MultiplayergtaTournament • Multi Theft Auto • San Andreas Multiplayer • (more...)
Useful linksCommunity Portal • Discussion Forums • Modding Forums • Mods on GTAGarage.com • Mobile Modding • Opcodes Database
v · d · e
Vice City Grand Theft Auto: Vice City
File Formats.adf • .b • .col • .cfg • .dff • .dat • .gxt • .ide • .ifp • .img/.dir • .ipl • .raw/.sdt • .rep • .set • .scm • .txd
DocumentationAudio • Handling • Map Listing • Memory Addresses • Skin List • Opcodes • RenderWare • Script Paths • Saves • Sound Effects • Statistics • Vehicles • Text • Wanted levels • Weapons
ToolsCLEO • Collision File Editor II • G-Tools • GXT Editor • IMG Tool • Limit Adjuster • KEd (map editor) • Sanny Builder • TXD Workshop • Magic.TXD
TutorialsHow to create a mission • How to create a script • Vehicle Mod Installation
MultiplayerGTA:LC Multiplayer • gtaTournament • Multi Theft Auto • State Of Liberty Online • Vice City Multiplayer • Vice City Online
Useful linksCommunity Portal • Discussion Forums • Modding Forums • Mods on GTAGarage.com • Mobile Modding • Opcodes Database
v · d · e
GTA III Grand Theft Auto III
File Formats.b • .col • .cfg • .dff • .dat • .gxt • .ide • .ifp • .img • .ipl • .raw/.sdt • .set • .scm • .txd
DocumentationAudio • Handling.cfg • Map Listing • Opcodes • Paths • RenderWare • Saves • Sound Effects • Statistics • Vehicles • Wanted levels • Weapons
ToolsCLEO • Collision File Editor II • G-Tools • IMG Tool • Map Editor • Sanny Builder • TXD Workshop • Magic.TXD • Water Editor
TutorialsHow to create a mission • How to create a script • How to use Map Editor • Vehicle Mod Installation
MultiplayerLiberty Unleashed • Multi Theft Auto • More...
Useful linksCommunity Portal • Discussion Forums • Modding Forums • Mods on GTAGarage.com • Mobile Modding • Opcodes Database
Retrieved from "https://gtamods.com/mediawiki/index.php?title=TOBJ&oldid=17219"