Talk:SCM language - Revision history

Wesser: /* More leaked scripts */

2021-11-15T16:01:24Z

‎More leaked scripts

Link2012 at 14:13, 14 November 2021

2021-11-14T14:13:32Z

Wesser: /* More leaked scripts */

2021-11-14T02:19:48Z

‎More leaked scripts

Wesser: /* More leaked scripts */

2021-11-14T02:14:58Z

‎More leaked scripts

Link2012 at 02:33, 12 November 2021

2021-11-12T02:33:13Z

Squ1dd13: /* Rework ETA? */

2020-10-05T15:51:39Z

‎Rework ETA?

Link2012 at 16:15, 3 October 2020

2020-10-03T16:15:11Z

Squ1dd13: /* Rework ETA? */

2020-10-03T11:29:21Z

‎Rework ETA?

Link2012 at 17:23, 29 September 2020

2020-09-29T17:23:46Z

Wesser: /* Rework ETA? */

2020-09-29T16:42:55Z

‎Rework ETA?

@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 :* '''CONSTANT_INT''' is nowhere found.
 :Actually, I feel so much proud of what's been discovered, imagined and reconstructed without a single piece of evidence about certain stuff. &ndash; [[User:Wesser|Wesser]] ([[User talk:Wesser|talk]]) 02:14, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
-:They also leaked the San Andreas Script Compiler so we now have enough information to specify the language with precision up to San Andreas :-). [[User:Link2012|Link2012]] ([[User talk:Link2012|talk]]) 14:12, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
+::They also leaked the San Andreas Script Compiler so we now have enough information to specify the language with precision up to San Andreas :-). [[User:Link2012|Link2012]] ([[User talk:Link2012|talk]]) 14:12, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 == Rework ETA? ==

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 == More leaked scripts ==
-So this time we got the entire GTA VC and GTA SA script sources!
+So this time we got the entire GTA III, GTA VC and GTA SA script sources!
 So we ('sup Wesser) guessed lots of things wrong (streamed scripts, some text label stuff, ''CONSTANT_*''), but we were right about ''CONST_*''. I'm really glad we are able to finally see what these scripts were really like. [[User:Link2012|Link2012]] ([[User talk:Link2012|talk]]) 02:33, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
@@ Line 11: / Line 11: @@
 :* '''CONSTANT_INT''' is nowhere found.
 :Actually, I feel so much proud of what's been discovered, imagined and reconstructed without a single piece of evidence about certain stuff. &ndash; [[User:Wesser|Wesser]] ([[User talk:Wesser|talk]]) 02:14, 14 November 2021 (UTC)
 == Rework ETA? ==

@@ Line 9: / Line 9: @@
 :* '''MISSION_START''' and '''MISSION_END''' indeed are also used as directives of streamed scripts, or better yet streamed sub-scripts (something we could have thought ourselves, dammit);
 :* Text label literals oftenly come with an unpredictable ampersand;
 :* '''CONSTANT_INT''' is nowhere found.
 :Actually, I feel so much proud of what's been discovered, imagined and reconstructed without a single piece of evidence about certain stuff. &ndash; [[User:Wesser|Wesser]] ([[User talk:Wesser|talk]]) 02:14, 14 November 2021 (UTC)

@@ Line 1: / Line 1: @@
 == More leaked scripts ==
-So this time we got the entire GTA VC and GTA SA script sources! https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1_KixPGvT0yU25haPFevIwwlRfHNMmX9U?usp=sharing. Many thanks to Junior_Djjr for sending me these out.
+So this time we got the entire GTA VC and GTA SA script sources!
 So we ('sup Wesser) guessed lots of things wrong (streamed scripts, some text label stuff, ''CONSTANT_*''), but we were right about ''CONST_*''. I'm really glad we are able to finally see what these scripts were really like. [[User:Link2012|Link2012]] ([[User talk:Link2012|talk]]) 02:33, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 == Rework ETA? ==

← Older revision		Revision as of 02:33, 12 November 2021
Line 1:		Line 1:
		+	== More leaked scripts ==
		+
		+	So this time we got the entire GTA VC and GTA SA script sources! https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1_KixPGvT0yU25haPFevIwwlRfHNMmX9U?usp=sharing. Many thanks to Junior_Djjr for sending me these out.
		+
		+	So we ('sup Wesser) guessed lots of things wrong (streamed scripts, some text label stuff, ''CONSTANT_''), but we were right about ''CONST_''. I'm really glad we are able to finally see what these scripts were really like. [[User:Link2012\|Link2012]] ([[User talk:Link2012\|talk]]) 02:33, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
		+
	== Rework ETA? ==		== Rework ETA? ==
	It seems pointless to edit the page on the wiki while the rework is going on, since the reworked page will presumably completely replace the current one entirely (correct me if I am wrong on that). Is there any ETA for the rework? Additionally, would it be possible for the rework to be done entirely on the wiki – section by section maybe – so that people can actively contribute to the page during the rework? – [[User:Squ1dd13\|Squ1dd13]] ([[User talk:Squ1dd13\|talk]]) 11:39, 3 September 2020 (UTC)		It seems pointless to edit the page on the wiki while the rework is going on, since the reworked page will presumably completely replace the current one entirely (correct me if I am wrong on that). Is there any ETA for the rework? Additionally, would it be possible for the rework to be done entirely on the wiki – section by section maybe – so that people can actively contribute to the page during the rework? – [[User:Squ1dd13\|Squ1dd13]] ([[User talk:Squ1dd13\|talk]]) 11:39, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

@@ Line 8: / Line 8: @@
 ::::I disagree with your point that the idea of alternators is different to function overloading (in this case, [[wikipedia:Operator overloading|operator overloading]]), but given that I'm new here and have less experience with both this wiki and the SCM language, I'll change the section back to 'alternators'. Regarding the point about "command" vs. "opcode", I'm not really sure what you're picking up on there? I don't see any obvious instances where I've used one where the other would be more suitable (I try to use "opcode" when referring to the number, and "command" when referring to the operation that has that number), but I'll look out for any mistakes I've made with that. Thanks for the advice! – [[User:Squ1dd13|Squ1dd13]] ([[User talk:Squ1dd13|talk]]) 11:28, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
 :::::My mistake on the point about opcodes, I thought you renamed the Commands section to Opcodes when I saw the diffs. Sorry for that. Regarding overloading, my disagreement comes from a) The commands themselves are not overloaded. There's not multiple commands named SET, but a name that maps to other commands that are independent from said name. b) The semantics for the arguments of a command and an alternator are different. For example, let's say we have the alternator <code>AAA = {BBB INPUT_INT}</code>. Since <code>BBB INPUT_INT</code> accepts integers and variables, I'd assume <code>AAA 1</code> or <code>AAA somevar</code> would work, but neither does, breaking my expectations about "overloading". And you are more than welcome! You did good on expressing your disagreement about my disagreement, such that I can share and question my own knowledge about the subject. Language design is something to be toughly discussed, or otherwise we risk breaking compilers or languages themselves forever. [[User:Link2012|Link2012]] ([[User talk:Link2012|talk]]) 16:14, 3 October 2020 (UTC)
 :Let me also take this opportunity to share something I've seen recently. The following is an interview that Rockstar North developers gave to GameSpot back in 2006: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/grand-theft-auto-san-andreas-qanda-under-the-hood/1100-6126774/. This interview confirms that arrays were only introduced in GTA SA, confirms the terms "main script", "mission script" and others, and introduces a new term, "ambient script", which are the non-main and non-mission scripts. [[User:Link2012|Link2012]] ([[User talk:Link2012|talk]]) 21:40, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 ::Thanks for sharing. A hidden gem, even though it unveils little unknown details, it's still pleasant to get something from a trusted source. [[User:Seemann|Seemann]] ([[User talk:Seemann|talk]]) 02:40, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

@@ Line 6: / Line 6: @@
 ::I never really liked the "alternator" term, I opt for "multicommand" which is consistent with the native lexicon. &ndash; [[User:Wesser|Wesser]] ([[User talk:Wesser|talk]]) 16:29, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
 :::I recall your disagreement on the term, as we additionally opted for "command set" or "command selector". "Multicommand" seems fine to me since it's not to be confused with another PL term. [[User:Link2012|Link2012]] ([[User talk:Link2012|talk]]) 17:23, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
 :Let me also take this opportunity to share something I've seen recently. The following is an interview that Rockstar North developers gave to GameSpot back in 2006: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/grand-theft-auto-san-andreas-qanda-under-the-hood/1100-6126774/. This interview confirms that arrays were only introduced in GTA SA, confirms the terms "main script", "mission script" and others, and introduces a new term, "ambient script", which are the non-main and non-mission scripts. [[User:Link2012|Link2012]] ([[User talk:Link2012|talk]]) 21:40, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 ::Thanks for sharing. A hidden gem, even though it unveils little unknown details, it's still pleasant to get something from a trusted source. [[User:Seemann|Seemann]] ([[User talk:Seemann|talk]]) 02:40, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

@@ Line 4: / Line 4: @@
 ::Ok, I'm a bit busy at the moment but I'll probably do that at some point. Cheers. – [[User:Squ1dd13|Squ1dd13]] ([[User talk:Squ1dd13|talk]]) 18:08, 4 September 2020 (UTC)
 :Hey. Nice to see another member of the community interested in the language after so long. Thanks for the updates. Let me express some disagreements: Command is an element of the language, opcode an element of the runtime environment (i.e. CRunningScript). The name of a operation should be command, since that is what Rockstar's miss2.exe strings call them (never mentioning something as an opcode). The language and the runtime should be treated as separate entities (e.g. Python can target CPython, PyPy, JVM, CLR and even native code) due to the separation of programming languages and compiler fields in computer science. b) Alternators shouldn't be called overloads IMO, because that's probably not how Rockstar called them. This language is quite exotic, and that's something to get used to. The leaked compiler always refer to it as an "alternative". Plus, when one describes it formally, it's not as easy to parallel it with function overloading (can talk further if necessary). Anyway, since you are here, you might be interested in something I've been working for the past few years. It's still unfinished therefore I have not yet acquired feedback from other community members, but it may provide insights onto the design of the language: https://gtamodding.github.io/gta3script-specs. It's pretty formal, but that's what it is supposed to be. Best regards. [[User:Link2012|Link2012]] ([[User talk:Link2012|talk]]) 19:57, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 :Let me also take this opportunity to share something I've seen recently. The following is an interview that Rockstar North developers gave to GameSpot back in 2006: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/grand-theft-auto-san-andreas-qanda-under-the-hood/1100-6126774/. This interview confirms that arrays were only introduced in GTA SA, confirms the terms "main script", "mission script" and others, and introduces a new term, "ambient script", which are the non-main and non-mission scripts. [[User:Link2012|Link2012]] ([[User talk:Link2012|talk]]) 21:40, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
 ::Thanks for sharing. A hidden gem, even though it unveils little unknown details, it's still pleasant to get something from a trusted source. [[User:Seemann|Seemann]] ([[User talk:Seemann|talk]]) 02:40, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
 == Miss2 ==